Management messages - a suggestion

[Spike]

Recently, some groups have been suffering from the cross-posting of
irrelevant message threads, one of the most affected being uk.d-i-y. One
of the posters there has put forward a way of employing the
multi-platform, free, widely-used newsgroup reader Thunderbird to remove
such cross-posts from individual groups - one method involves listing
the individual offending groups, the other is to remove all cross-posts
using a simple rule, which has the benefit of not needing to add the
latest offending group one's filter.

John Rumm of that group posted this link:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Newsgroup_access_tips#Filtering_cross_posts

It would appear that both methods of cross-post filtering are proving to
be popular on that group, and in general such filtering 'cleans up'
affected groups very well.

However, the Management groups also suffer from irrelevant
cross-posting, and individuals can use the same methods as in the d-i-y
group to eliminate such unwanted material. This does mean that those who
use the 'all cross-posts' method mentioned in the Rumm link to filter
the management groups will have cross-posted management messages deleted
and therefore not read by those readers. Given the current scale of the
problem, the ease of its solution, and the benefits such filtering
brings it might it be an idea to ensure that management messages are
posted to single groups and repeated (but not cross-posted) as necessary
to other management groups?

[Charles Lindsey]

Post by Spike
However, the Management groups also suffer from irrelevant
cross-posting, and individuals can use the same methods as in the d-i-y
group to eliminate such unwanted material. This does mean that those who
use the 'all cross-posts' method mentioned in the Rumm link to filter
the management groups will have cross-posted management messages deleted
and therefore not read by those readers. Given the current scale of the
problem, the ease of its solution, and the benefits such filtering
brings it might it be an idea to ensure that management messages are
posted to single groups and repeated (but not cross-posted) as necessary
to other management groups?

The problem I find in the management groups is that, when some official post
goes in UNNA, it is often crossposted to UNNC and UNNM as well (and rightly so).
The best newsreaders will show the article in the first of those groups you
happen to see it in, and then mark it as read in the other groups, so you only
see it the once. But I haven't found and means of doing this in Thunderbird.
Suggestions welcome.

[Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer]

Post by Charles Lindsey

Post by Spike
However, the Management groups also suffer from irrelevant
cross-posting, and individuals can use the same methods as in the d-i-y
group to eliminate such unwanted material. This does mean that those who
use the 'all cross-posts' method mentioned in the Rumm link to filter
the management groups will have cross-posted management messages deleted
and therefore not read by those readers. Given the current scale of the
problem, the ease of its solution, and the benefits such filtering
brings it might it be an idea to ensure that management messages are
posted to single groups and repeated (but not cross-posted) as necessary
to other management groups?

The problem I find in the management groups is that, when some official
post goes in UNNA, it is often crossposted to UNNC and UNNM as well (and
rightly so). The best newsreaders will show the article in the first of
those groups you happen to see it in, and then mark it as read in the
other groups, so you only see it the once. But I haven't found and means
of doing this in Thunderbird. Suggestions welcome.

The best approach would be to find some means of blacklisting Stephen
Thomas Troll from the whole of Usenet.

[Stephen Cole]

Post by Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer

Post by Charles Lindsey

Post by Spike
However, the Management groups also suffer from irrelevant
cross-posting, and individuals can use the same methods as in the d-i-y
group to eliminate such unwanted material. This does mean that those who
use the 'all cross-posts' method mentioned in the Rumm link to filter
the management groups will have cross-posted management messages deleted
and therefore not read by those readers. Given the current scale of the
problem, the ease of its solution, and the benefits such filtering
brings it might it be an idea to ensure that management messages are
posted to single groups and repeated (but not cross-posted) as necessary
to other management groups?

The problem I find in the management groups is that, when some official
post goes in UNNA, it is often crossposted to UNNC and UNNM as well (and
rightly so). The best newsreaders will show the article in the first of
those groups you happen to see it in, and then mark it as read in the
other groups, so you only see it the once. But I haven't found and means
of doing this in Thunderbird. Suggestions welcome.

The best approach would be to find some means of blacklisting Stephen
Thomas Troll from the whole of Usenet.

Gotten to.

[Stephen Cole]

Post by Charles Lindsey
Suggestions welcome.

Use a proper newsreader. HTH.

[Spike]

Post by Charles Lindsey

........might it be an idea to ensure that management messages are
posted to single groups and repeated (but not cross-posted) as necessary
to other management groups?

The problem I find in the management groups is that, when some official post
goes in UNNA, it is often cross-posted to UNNC and UNNM as well (and rightly so).
The best newsreaders will show the article in the first of those groups you
happen to see it in, and then mark it as read in the other groups, so you only
see it the once. But I haven't found and means of doing this in Thunderbird.
Suggestions welcome.

There's an add-on for removing duplicate messages, but the description
suggests it's intended for duplicate emails in a folder rather than
'live' on Usenet messages.

[Stephen Cole]

Post by Spike

Post by Charles Lindsey

........might it be an idea to ensure that management messages are
posted to single groups and repeated (but not cross-posted) as necessary
to other management groups?

The problem I find in the management groups is that, when some official post
goes in UNNA, it is often cross-posted to UNNC and UNNM as well (and rightly so).
The best newsreaders will show the article in the first of those groups you
happen to see it in, and then mark it as read in the other groups, so you only
see it the once. But I haven't found and means of doing this in Thunderbird.
Suggestions welcome.

There's an add-on for removing duplicate messages, but the description
suggests it's intended for duplicate emails in a folder rather than
'live' on Usenet messages.

That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program, Burt.

[Brian Morrison]

On 9 Oct 2019 08:16:25 GMT

Post by Stephen Cole

Post by Spike
There's an add-on for removing duplicate messages, but the description
suggests it's intended for duplicate emails in a folder rather than
'live' on Usenet messages.

That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program, Burt.

From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq

"What is Thunderbird?

Thunderbird is a free, open-source, cross-platform application for
managing email, news feeds, chat, and news groups."

You were saying?

[Stephen Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 9 Oct 2019 08:16:25 GMT

Post by Stephen Cole

Post by Spike
There's an add-on for removing duplicate messages, but the description
suggests it's intended for duplicate emails in a folder rather than
'live' on Usenet messages.

That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program, Burt.

From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq
"What is Thunderbird?
Thunderbird is a free, open-source, cross-platform application for
managing email, news feeds, chat, and news groups."
You were saying?

That Thunderbird’s an email program, Brian. It has a half-baked newsreader
function, just like OE did, but that does not make it a newsreader program,
as evidenced by the basic newsreader functionality that is missing from it
and causing Burt et al so much grief in their lives. HTH.

[Brian Morrison]

On 9 Oct 2019 16:20:56 GMT

Post by Stephen Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 9 Oct 2019 08:16:25 GMT

[...]

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Stephen Cole
That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program, Burt.

From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq
"What is Thunderbird?
Thunderbird is a free, open-source, cross-platform application for
managing email, news feeds, chat, and news groups."
You were saying?

That Thunderbird’s an email program, Brian. It has a half-baked newsreader
function, just like OE did, but that does not make it a newsreader program,
as evidenced by the basic newsreader functionality that is missing from it
and causing Burt et al so much grief in their lives. HTH.

Odd, I and many of my colleagues used it for a decade for internal
newsgroups where I worked, it was perfectly fine especially when a
couple of useful extensions were used with it. Some of these were not
updated to work with newer versions of Thunderbird, which was a shame.

Experience has taught me that making a good fully-featured newsreader is
actually rather hard, especially in a GUI program. There were several
that worked well but their developers have pretty much stopped work due
to the decline of Usenet.

It will be interesting to see if Thunderbird's new developers are able
to bring it back to the level it used to have.

[Stephen Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 9 Oct 2019 16:20:56 GMT

Post by Stephen Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 9 Oct 2019 08:16:25 GMT

[...]

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Stephen Cole
That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program, Burt.

From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq
"What is Thunderbird?
Thunderbird is a free, open-source, cross-platform application for
managing email, news feeds, chat, and news groups."
You were saying?

That Thunderbird’s an email program, Brian. It has a half-baked newsreader
function, just like OE did, but that does not make it a newsreader program,
as evidenced by the basic newsreader functionality that is missing from it
and causing Burt et al so much grief in their lives. HTH.

Odd, I and many of my colleagues used it for a decade for internal
newsgroups where I worked, it was perfectly fine especially when a
couple of useful extensions were used with it.

So you admit that to make it a useable newsreader you need to install
add-ons to provide functionality more suited to Usenet use?

Post by Brian Morrison
Some of these were not
updated to work with newer versions of Thunderbird, which was a shame.
Experience has taught me that making a good fully-featured newsreader is
actually rather hard, especially in a GUI program. There were several
that worked well but their developers have pretty much stopped work due
to the decline of Usenet.

Mindless arguing aside temporarily, you raise an interesting point re
obsolescence of the medium. The answer is to maintain a vintage system to
run the correct software for satisfactory use of Usenet; I have a G4
PowerMac running on OS9 and have NewsWatcher or Thoth installed to choose
from on the rare occasions I access Usenet on a desktop these days (99.9%
of my Usenet is now via NewsTap on my iPhone, it’s an excellent program).
Good software still works if you’re able to run it, so make sure you have
the tools at hand to run it and you’ve no reason to gripe about there being
no good software anymore!

[Paul Cummins]

Post by Stephen Cole
The answer is to maintain a vintage system to
run the correct software for satisfactory use of Usenet;

Why? You can run the majority of newsreaders in a modern Unix/Linux
system, or even on Windows 10.

I currently run Ameol, originally designed by Steve Palmer, the lead
developer for MS Outlook, in 1993 for Windows 3.1, the 32-bit version
arriving a few years later on Windows 9x.

I have also used Forte Free-Agent, Newsbin and SLRN, all of which either
do, or can be made to, function, on Windows 10.

If you have to use a last generation Power-Mac to get round the issues
with your main system, time to change your main system.

BTW, modern Windows and *Nix machines can emulate a Power-Mac as well.
You can even run a modern virtual x86 Mac, if licensing issues cause you
no concerns.

SheepShaver (for Power-Mac) and Virtual-Box are your friends, on both
Windows and x86/x64 *Nix platforms.

[Stephen Cole]

Post by Stephen Cole
The answer is to maintain a vintage system to
run the correct software for satisfactory use of Usenet;

Why?

Because it’s fun! HTH.

[Paul Cummins]

Post by Stephen Cole
The answer is to maintain a vintage system to
run the correct software for satisfactory use of Usenet;

Why?

Because it_s fun! HTH.

50 \\|/!11 `/0|_| 4150 83 |_|5!|\\|6 133+-5|>34|(?

[Spike]

Post by Brian Morrison

[...]

Post by Brian Morrison

That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program.

From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq
"What is Thunderbird?
Thunderbird is a free, open-source, cross-platform application for
managing email, news feeds, chat, and news groups."
You were saying?

That Thunderbird’s an email program.

Odd, I and many of my colleagues used it for a decade for internal
newsgroups where I worked, it was perfectly fine especially when a
couple of useful extensions were used with it. Some of these were not
updated to work with newer versions of Thunderbird, which was a shame.
Experience has taught me that making a good fully-featured newsreader is
actually rather hard, especially in a GUI program. There were several
that worked well but their developers have pretty much stopped work due
to the decline of Usenet.
It will be interesting to see if Thunderbird's new developers are able
to bring it back to the level it used to have.

T-bird also very good for RSS as well as newsgroups and mail. Don't use
chat here so can't comment on that.

[Spike]

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
There's an add-on for removing duplicate messages, but the description
suggests it's intended for duplicate emails in a folder rather than
'live' on Usenet messages.

That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program, Burt.

From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq
"What is Thunderbird?
Thunderbird is a free, open-source, cross-platform application for
managing email, news feeds, chat, and news groups."
You were saying?

T'bird beats NewsTap any day - now that really is a newsgroup client
with limited functionality.

T'bird's filters deal very well with cross-posts - 69 messages on ukra
yesterday, 11 made it through the filter. NewsTap can't do *that*.

[Stephen Cole]

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
There's an add-on for removing duplicate messages, but the description
suggests it's intended for duplicate emails in a folder rather than
'live' on Usenet messages.

That’s because Thunderbird’s an email program, Burt.

From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq
"What is Thunderbird?
Thunderbird is a free, open-source, cross-platform application for
managing email, news feeds, chat, and news groups."
You were saying?

T'bird beats NewsTap any day - now that really is a newsgroup client
with limited functionality.
T'bird's filters deal very well with cross-posts - 69 messages on ukra
yesterday, 11 made it through the filter. NewsTap can't do *that*.

I’m not altogether sure that I need it to, Burt. I’ve got a few posters
filtered with various wildcards set to cover all of Usenet and that does
the job I require it to. I mean, you can keep waving your willy about it if
you like but it’s not very impressive, OM.

[Pamela]

Post by Charles Lindsey

Post by Spike
However, the Management groups also suffer from irrelevant
cross-posting, and individuals can use the same methods as in the d-i-y
group to eliminate such unwanted material. This does mean that those
who use the 'all cross-posts' method mentioned in the Rumm link to
filter the management groups will have cross-posted management messages
deleted and therefore not read by those readers. Given the current
scale of the problem, the ease of its solution, and the benefits such
filtering brings it might it be an idea to ensure that management
messages are posted to single groups and repeated (but not
cross-posted) as necessary to other management groups?

The problem I find in the management groups is that, when some official
post goes in UNNA, it is often crossposted to UNNC and UNNM as well (and
rightly so). The best newsreaders will show the article in the first of
those groups you happen to see it in, and then mark it as read in the
other groups, so you only see it the once. But I haven't found and means
of doing this in Thunderbird. Suggestions welcome.

Unfortunately, unless you read the message in the "other" group, that method
still shows the unwanted post in the group where it doesn't belong.