Mark Goodge
2019-05-27 13:10:00 UTC
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
2ND REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the following changes
in the uk.* Usenet hierarchy:
delete newsgroup uk.net.news.management
delete newsgroup uk.net.news.config
create moderated newsgroup uk.net.news.admin
Changes from previous RFD:
This is the second version of this RFD, following feedback on the
previous version. There are three changes to the RFD from the previous
version:
1) This version includes an alternate version of the Moderation
Policy, as suggested by contributors to that discussion. Version 1 is
the original policy from the 1st RFD. Version 2 is a new, shorter and
simpler policy.
2) The mandatory clause prohibiting binaries has been added to the
charter, and references to plain text removed from version 1 of the
moderation policy (as this clause renders that redundant).
3) A clause prohibiting advertising has been added to the charter.
Newsgroup line:
uk.net.news.admin Management of the uk.* hierarchy (Moderated)
*** ALL DISCUSSION MUST TAKE PLACE IN UK.NET.NEWS.CONFIG ***
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Further procedural details are given below.
RATIONALE: management_consolidation
There currently exists two groups where discussion of changes to the
uk.* hierarchy are discussed: uk.net.news.config and
uk.net.news.management.
The second of these groups was created at a time when Usenet usage was
at a peak. The rationale at the time was to separate proposals for
changes to the guidelines, for which the new group,
uk.net.news.management, was created, separating them from proposals
for new groups (which continued to be discussed in
uk.net.news.config).
In retrospect, this change was probably unnecessary. It was a response
to a perceived overload of uk.net.news.config at a time when both new
group proposals and guidelines changes were taking place. The
expectation at the time was that this would continue. In reality, it
has not.
Usenet, while by no means in terminal decline, does appear to have
passed its peak. More pertinently, the number of new group proposals
is now far lower, with the vast majority of topics that could need a
group now having one. Equally, there seems to be less of an appetite
for continual tinkering with the guidelines. Reverting to a single
group for these purposes will minimise confusion.
However, a separate issue has arisen which needs to be addressed.
Several recent new group proposals have involved the creation of
moderated groups, in response to a perceived need to have a "safe
space" where trolls and wreckers cannot operate freely. These
proposals, by their nature, have been controversial.
A consequence of the successful forming of these groups has been that
those who made their formation necessary have taken their disputes
into the management groups. The vast majority of material currently
posted to both uk.net.news.management and uk.net.news.config is off
topic.
This RFD proposes a solution to both of these problems at the same
time, by removing both of the current managementment groups and
replacing them with a single, moderated management group:
uk.net.news.admin.
CHARTER: uk.net.news.admin
This newsgroup is for the discussion of the management of the uk.*
news hierarchy, the committee appointed to oversee the management of
said hierarchy, the creation, modification or removal of groups within
the hierarchy, and the guidelines which document the processes
applicable in managing the hierarchy.
Matters which are on topic include:
* Discussion and debate about the UK Usenet Committee and officers
* RFDs and informal discussion of changes to groups within uk.*
* RFDs and informal discussion of changes to the UK Usenet Guidelines
* Other discussion relevant to the management of the UK Usenet
hierarchy
Formal RFDs to change any aspect of the hierarchy, including group
creation, renaming, rechartering and removal, as well as changes to
the UK Usenet Guidelines, shall be discussed in this group.
For the purposes of the guidelines, this group shall be the definitive
record of the discussion. All RFDs should indicate where the
definitive discussion should take place.
This group is moderated to ensure that all discussions remain on topic
and do not become unduly drawn out.
Advertising
Advertising is forbidden.
Binaries and Formatting
Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are
forbidden. Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a
pointer may be posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used
where authentication is important and should be as short as possible.
Posts must be readable as plain text. HTML, RTF and similarly
formatted messages are prohibited.
MODERATION POLICY:
[Version 1]
For the purposes of this policy, the following definitions are used:
Thread Starter: An article posted to the group which has no
References headers.
Thread Member: An article posted to the group which contains
References headers to previous articles.
The following will always be accepted for posting to the group:
1. Thread Starters consisting of a valid RFD or CFV crossposted
to uk.net.news.announce (and, where appropriate, any other group).
2. Thread Starters consisting of formal statements issued by the UK
Usenet Committee or UKVoting, crossposted to uk.net.news.announce
(and, where appropriate, any other group). This includes, but is
not limited to, CFV results, statements relating to appeals and
notices regarding either organisation.
3. Thread Members which meet ALL of the following criteria:
a) MUST contain at least one References header to a
previously approved article,
b) MUST NOT be crossposted to any group that the Thread Starter
was not crossposted to,
c) MUST NOT have a Follow-ups header to any group not in the
Newsgroups header,
d) MUST NOT contain a References header to a topic which has been
closed by the moderators,
e) MUST retain the same Subject line as the Thread Starter, other
than prepending the standard reply indicator "Re:"
Other Thread Starters will be accepted at the discretion of the
moderators, where it appears that the thread is sufficiently on-topic
for the group. Discretionary Thread Starters MUST NOT be crossposted
to any other group.
With the exception of discretionary thread starters, it is not the
intention that moderation should be on the basis of content. Once a
topic has been accepted for discussion, users of the group may post
freely to it as long as it remains open, provided that their posts
meet the technical criteria, above. There will be no whitelisting or
blacklisting of contributors.
The moderators may, at their discretion, allow an alteration to a
Subject line in a Thread Member where the change is reasonable and
does not affect the meaning (eg, to correct spelling, or to truncate
an excessively long Subject). Changes which signify a change of topic
should not be allowed.
The moderators may, at their discretion, close a thread to further
discussion. RFD/CFV threads may only be closed after the discussion
period specified within the RFD/CFV has expired. Non-RFD/CFV threads
may be closed at any time.
It is envisaged that, insofar as it is possible, the majority of
moderation decisions will be made automatically by software. The
moderators may use any tools at their disposal to facilitate manual
decisions.
[End Version 1]
[Version 2]
The following will always be accepted for posting to the group:
1) A valid RFD or CFV crossposted to uk.net.news.announce (and, where
appropriate, any other group).
2) Formal statements issued by the UK Usenet Committee or UKVoting,
crossposted to uk.net.news.announce (and, where appropriate, any
other group). This includes, but is not limited to, CFV results,
statements relating to appeals and notices regarding either
organisation.
3) Posts in any thread started by either of the above, provided that
a) the Subject line remains unchanged (other than prepending the
standard reply indicator "Re:"),
b) no newsgroups are included in either the Newsgroups or
Follow-ups headers that were not present in the original post,
c) the content of the post remains on-topic for the stated
subject of the thread, and
c) the content of the post is not abusive, defamatory, unduly
repetitive or otherwise disruptive to the group.
Other posts may be accepted at the discretion of the moderators.
Moderators may use whatever tools they feel appropriate to ensure the
smooth running of the group.
[End Version 2]
MODERATOR INFO:
The moderators shall include Control, in his capacity as moderator of
uk.net.news.announce and therefore as authorised to crosspost to
uk.net.news.admin.
Other moderators shall be appointed by the UK Usenet Committee. The
number of other moderators and their term of office shall be entirely
at the discretion of the Committee.
With the exception of Control when cross-posting to
uk.net.news.announce, moderators may not approve their own posts.
END CHARTER
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of
the process, any potential problems with the proposal should be raised
and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 10
days, starting from when this RFD is posted to uk.net.news.announce
(i.e. until June 7th) after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be
posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.
Alternatively, the proposal may proceed by the fast-track method. Please
do not attempt to vote until this happens.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the "Guidelines for Group Creation
within the UK Hierarchy" as published regularly in uk.net.news.announce
and is available from http://www.usenet.org.uk/guidelines.html (the UK
Usenet website). Please refer to this document if you have any questions
about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
uk.net.news.announce
uk.net.news.config
Proponent:
Mark Goodge <***@good-stuff.co.uk>
2ND REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the following changes
in the uk.* Usenet hierarchy:
delete newsgroup uk.net.news.management
delete newsgroup uk.net.news.config
create moderated newsgroup uk.net.news.admin
Changes from previous RFD:
This is the second version of this RFD, following feedback on the
previous version. There are three changes to the RFD from the previous
version:
1) This version includes an alternate version of the Moderation
Policy, as suggested by contributors to that discussion. Version 1 is
the original policy from the 1st RFD. Version 2 is a new, shorter and
simpler policy.
2) The mandatory clause prohibiting binaries has been added to the
charter, and references to plain text removed from version 1 of the
moderation policy (as this clause renders that redundant).
3) A clause prohibiting advertising has been added to the charter.
Newsgroup line:
uk.net.news.admin Management of the uk.* hierarchy (Moderated)
*** ALL DISCUSSION MUST TAKE PLACE IN UK.NET.NEWS.CONFIG ***
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Further procedural details are given below.
RATIONALE: management_consolidation
There currently exists two groups where discussion of changes to the
uk.* hierarchy are discussed: uk.net.news.config and
uk.net.news.management.
The second of these groups was created at a time when Usenet usage was
at a peak. The rationale at the time was to separate proposals for
changes to the guidelines, for which the new group,
uk.net.news.management, was created, separating them from proposals
for new groups (which continued to be discussed in
uk.net.news.config).
In retrospect, this change was probably unnecessary. It was a response
to a perceived overload of uk.net.news.config at a time when both new
group proposals and guidelines changes were taking place. The
expectation at the time was that this would continue. In reality, it
has not.
Usenet, while by no means in terminal decline, does appear to have
passed its peak. More pertinently, the number of new group proposals
is now far lower, with the vast majority of topics that could need a
group now having one. Equally, there seems to be less of an appetite
for continual tinkering with the guidelines. Reverting to a single
group for these purposes will minimise confusion.
However, a separate issue has arisen which needs to be addressed.
Several recent new group proposals have involved the creation of
moderated groups, in response to a perceived need to have a "safe
space" where trolls and wreckers cannot operate freely. These
proposals, by their nature, have been controversial.
A consequence of the successful forming of these groups has been that
those who made their formation necessary have taken their disputes
into the management groups. The vast majority of material currently
posted to both uk.net.news.management and uk.net.news.config is off
topic.
This RFD proposes a solution to both of these problems at the same
time, by removing both of the current managementment groups and
replacing them with a single, moderated management group:
uk.net.news.admin.
CHARTER: uk.net.news.admin
This newsgroup is for the discussion of the management of the uk.*
news hierarchy, the committee appointed to oversee the management of
said hierarchy, the creation, modification or removal of groups within
the hierarchy, and the guidelines which document the processes
applicable in managing the hierarchy.
Matters which are on topic include:
* Discussion and debate about the UK Usenet Committee and officers
* RFDs and informal discussion of changes to groups within uk.*
* RFDs and informal discussion of changes to the UK Usenet Guidelines
* Other discussion relevant to the management of the UK Usenet
hierarchy
Formal RFDs to change any aspect of the hierarchy, including group
creation, renaming, rechartering and removal, as well as changes to
the UK Usenet Guidelines, shall be discussed in this group.
For the purposes of the guidelines, this group shall be the definitive
record of the discussion. All RFDs should indicate where the
definitive discussion should take place.
This group is moderated to ensure that all discussions remain on topic
and do not become unduly drawn out.
Advertising
Advertising is forbidden.
Binaries and Formatting
Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are
forbidden. Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a
pointer may be posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used
where authentication is important and should be as short as possible.
Posts must be readable as plain text. HTML, RTF and similarly
formatted messages are prohibited.
MODERATION POLICY:
[Version 1]
For the purposes of this policy, the following definitions are used:
Thread Starter: An article posted to the group which has no
References headers.
Thread Member: An article posted to the group which contains
References headers to previous articles.
The following will always be accepted for posting to the group:
1. Thread Starters consisting of a valid RFD or CFV crossposted
to uk.net.news.announce (and, where appropriate, any other group).
2. Thread Starters consisting of formal statements issued by the UK
Usenet Committee or UKVoting, crossposted to uk.net.news.announce
(and, where appropriate, any other group). This includes, but is
not limited to, CFV results, statements relating to appeals and
notices regarding either organisation.
3. Thread Members which meet ALL of the following criteria:
a) MUST contain at least one References header to a
previously approved article,
b) MUST NOT be crossposted to any group that the Thread Starter
was not crossposted to,
c) MUST NOT have a Follow-ups header to any group not in the
Newsgroups header,
d) MUST NOT contain a References header to a topic which has been
closed by the moderators,
e) MUST retain the same Subject line as the Thread Starter, other
than prepending the standard reply indicator "Re:"
Other Thread Starters will be accepted at the discretion of the
moderators, where it appears that the thread is sufficiently on-topic
for the group. Discretionary Thread Starters MUST NOT be crossposted
to any other group.
With the exception of discretionary thread starters, it is not the
intention that moderation should be on the basis of content. Once a
topic has been accepted for discussion, users of the group may post
freely to it as long as it remains open, provided that their posts
meet the technical criteria, above. There will be no whitelisting or
blacklisting of contributors.
The moderators may, at their discretion, allow an alteration to a
Subject line in a Thread Member where the change is reasonable and
does not affect the meaning (eg, to correct spelling, or to truncate
an excessively long Subject). Changes which signify a change of topic
should not be allowed.
The moderators may, at their discretion, close a thread to further
discussion. RFD/CFV threads may only be closed after the discussion
period specified within the RFD/CFV has expired. Non-RFD/CFV threads
may be closed at any time.
It is envisaged that, insofar as it is possible, the majority of
moderation decisions will be made automatically by software. The
moderators may use any tools at their disposal to facilitate manual
decisions.
[End Version 1]
[Version 2]
The following will always be accepted for posting to the group:
1) A valid RFD or CFV crossposted to uk.net.news.announce (and, where
appropriate, any other group).
2) Formal statements issued by the UK Usenet Committee or UKVoting,
crossposted to uk.net.news.announce (and, where appropriate, any
other group). This includes, but is not limited to, CFV results,
statements relating to appeals and notices regarding either
organisation.
3) Posts in any thread started by either of the above, provided that
a) the Subject line remains unchanged (other than prepending the
standard reply indicator "Re:"),
b) no newsgroups are included in either the Newsgroups or
Follow-ups headers that were not present in the original post,
c) the content of the post remains on-topic for the stated
subject of the thread, and
c) the content of the post is not abusive, defamatory, unduly
repetitive or otherwise disruptive to the group.
Other posts may be accepted at the discretion of the moderators.
Moderators may use whatever tools they feel appropriate to ensure the
smooth running of the group.
[End Version 2]
MODERATOR INFO:
The moderators shall include Control, in his capacity as moderator of
uk.net.news.announce and therefore as authorised to crosspost to
uk.net.news.admin.
Other moderators shall be appointed by the UK Usenet Committee. The
number of other moderators and their term of office shall be entirely
at the discretion of the Committee.
With the exception of Control when cross-posting to
uk.net.news.announce, moderators may not approve their own posts.
END CHARTER
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of
the process, any potential problems with the proposal should be raised
and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 10
days, starting from when this RFD is posted to uk.net.news.announce
(i.e. until June 7th) after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be
posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.
Alternatively, the proposal may proceed by the fast-track method. Please
do not attempt to vote until this happens.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the "Guidelines for Group Creation
within the UK Hierarchy" as published regularly in uk.net.news.announce
and is available from http://www.usenet.org.uk/guidelines.html (the UK
Usenet website). Please refer to this document if you have any questions
about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
uk.net.news.announce
uk.net.news.config
Proponent:
Mark Goodge <***@good-stuff.co.uk>